Glass tiles are unique products and may require special consideration. For tile installations using the thin-bed method, apply Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or unmodified thin-set mortar directly to the exposed KERDI surface and install the tiles, ensuring full coverage. KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. specific product you want to buy. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Designed specifically for ceramic tile and dimension stone installations, DITRA serves as an uncoupling layer, waterproofing membrane, and vapor management layer that accommodates moisture from beneath the tile covering. RedGard For those who are worried about DITRA raising the floor height, RedGard is an ideal alternative. Don't fear the mud. Will OSB Suck Moisture from the Mortar Used to Install DITRA? Do I need an uncoupling membrane on plywood? As I wind down my shower project, the wife aka boss are in grout mode. I would not use a liquid membrane over a Kerdi tray. Makes things a lot easier. The substrate must be clean, even, and load bearing. Not sure what controversy there is to installing Kerdi. How are you going to handle the butt joints perpendicular to the joists of your new and old OSB? In high moisture areas, you can imagine that it is very important to consider this water-resistant feature and functionality so that it will help your projects be more complete. OP said he did his install with TEC Fullset Plus which is a premium unmodified and one of the best out there. J. Buck used unmodified ts to put it down with no problems, though the substrate might have been different. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. Im installing Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my shower. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Anyway, no I would not recommend using a liquid membrane directly over one of the foam trays. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 5. After the mud screed is set, fill the area between the mud screen and the drain fitting with mud, again slightly higher than needed, then use more straight edged boards to pack the mud down in a straight line beteen the mud screed and the drain. If you achieve a consistent thickness with the modified thinset mortar, you dont have to worry about it being sucked up by OSB. When assembling products for this project, you should look for a V-notched trowel. Some suggest marble is not recommended for showers. Looks like it should work. Neither one absorbs moisture and both offer some interesting features (glow in the dark! For acid-resistant coverings, use an epoxy adhesive to set and grout the tile. The last step is to steel trowel the mud to clean up any loose sand. CEMENT based only !!!!! Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. Keep in mind all of the work your doing. When you set the curb, try to get a little slope into the shower with it. SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 530: PRO TALK With Architecture Student Phillip Schladweiler, Podcast 529: Cold Floors, Galvanic Corrosion, and Siding Over Board Sheathing. Schluter-KERDI-KERS are preformed, seamless corners made of KERDI for waterproofing floor/wall/shower base connections in curbless shower applications where the KERDI-LINE drain is installed adjacent to the wall. This membrane features an anchoring fleece on both sides to anchor it in thin-set mortar. WebKERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. About 1/4" off with a 6 ft. Level. The material is physiologically safe and does not require special disposal. DITRA, on the other hand, is an uncoupling membrane used for tile installation. "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." 173 and followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay Ditra over it. 6. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. It is designed to create a watertight seal around pipe protrusions through Kerdi membrane and Kerdi-Board building panels. Makes it real simple to install and when done right good for 50 years. I will give it a shot. I will check. WebDitra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. A bunch of products can be used over an OSB floor. Therefore, it really wont raise the OSB floor very high. I understand that to be a requirement for the foam trays. Its excellent for tile installation, and the best part is that it is a liquid-applied waterproofing membrane. Kerdi Board is another choice with a decently long history and loyal customer base. When discussing the steps of installing DITRA over OSB, we mentioned that you should mix up the thinset so that its not too thick or thin. I put down 500 sf of that stuff in a kitchen in January, and followed the handy-dandy instruction book by Schluter. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK. Hi Danny. I asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. The only time I've used Ultraflex with a Schluter product is when I adhere Ditra to a plywood substrate, if you put Ditra over a SLC you need to go back to unmodified. Just be sure they're in good shape. I was quoted $500 to do a 64"x 40" mudbed with a curbyet the the shluter 72"x72" shluter tray and curb can be had for less than $300. There is never 'the answer' but 'an answer'. No matter how firm the subfloor; the plywood will expand and contract at a different rate as the tile, causing cracks to develop in the grout lines or tiles over time. Ditra allows modified thinset to lay the Ditra down, but requires unmodified TS when setting the tile on the Ditra. Repeat until you are sure the DITRA has adhered to the thinset. KERDI is suitable for use in intermittent use steam showers. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in Schluter-KERDI-SEAL-PS and Schluter-KERDI-SEAL-MV are prefabricated waterproofing seals with over-molded rubber gaskets designed for protrusions through KERDI, DITRA, or DITRA-XL membranes and protect moisture-sensitive backing panels at the mixing valve. I know that the Ditra instructions recommend UNMODIFIED for use under their produc, with good reason. Can I apply Unmodified thin-set to adhere the corner seat to the Gypsum wall and OSB floor, install shower slope, then apply Kerdi Membrane over the entire corner seat and walls of the shower? 8. Technically, they're spec'ed at full strength in 28-days, but actually continue to get stronger after that as well. I would just prime with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry 'till tacky and go for it. Our local menards has Tec, but not sure they carry that. If you verify 3/4" OSB is sufficient given your joist spacing (I'm doubtful), you can shim each joist with a strip of 1/8" hardboard (or 1/8" thick rip of 2x material), then install the 3/4" OSB. Step 2 Cut the DITRA Into Smaller Sizes. It takes a little longer than the traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but it is worth it. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Tiles can be installed directly on KERDI using the thin-bed method. Tile will go over the kerdi. The use of really cold water might give you an extra minute or two. Its a lot easier to do it right the first time and cheaper also. Both (actually, all three) methods will produce a workable shower, if done properly. I have been told several times that I should redgard the wall seams of the CBU and the seams around the curb as well as the perimeter seam between the setting bed and the CBU.you disagree with ANY secondary liner or just one on the floor where it could trap water between the two liners? Ensure the pieces are big enough to fit the entire OSB subfloor. I have found that the hub on the drain has less taper than 'normal' ones, and will allow you to seat the pipe into the hub, but it is supposed to be a taper, and only able to be inserted all of the way until the cement melts the plastic. I would prefer to seal the KBRS corner seat with Kerdi. For showers and bathtub surrounds, KERDI must be carried to the height of the showerhead at minimum What size notched trowel should I use to install Schluter-KERDI? Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. The thinset will help bond the DITRA to the OSB. Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. You have a plastic moisture barrier behind the walls, and a PVC liner under the floor. Connections to fixed building elements can be achieved by using KERDI, KERDI-BAND, or KERDI-FLEX in conjunction with KERDI-FIX, suitable trowel-applied waterproofing materials (such as urethane or similar), that require atmospheric moisture to cure, or other suitable sealing compounds. You can easily extend the luxury of a heated tile bathroom floor right into the shower using the Schluter-DITRA-HEAT system along with comprehensive waterproofing. Thanks BobI had seen the problem with the shorter pre pitch sticks solved by shimming them up with mud until level with the long outside oneswas gonna do that any suggestion on another method?maybe I'll shim em up with extra lath now that I know need that in there? Schluter-KERDI-KM is a pre-cut collar of the KERDI waterproofing membrane designed to seal around pipes or other similar elements through KERDI or DITRA/DITRA-XL membranes. ?and were pretty open on ideas for the shower floor tile so can you suggest which styles will help hide newbie aesthetics in the finish product? Do I need to prime plywood before tiling? Why Does He Look At Me When Im Not Looking? Please call Schluter-Systems Can I install Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my tiled shower? Schluter-Systems does not recommend the use of premixed thin-set mortars (mastics/adhesives) in any KERDI installation. Well damn. It's easier to get things level when applied thicker, but that may not be what you want because of height stackups. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. IMPORTANT: Stud spacing exceeding 16" requires the placement of additional studs. Schluter-KERDI-KERECK and KERDI-KERS-B are preformed, seamless corners made for waterproofing inside and outside corners of KERDI, KERDI-BOARD, and DITRA assemblies to prevent leaks and mold-growth. Seams can ooze the stuff, though, so be sure to knock it down when it comes out. A fully waterproof assembly is easily achieved by sealing seams and fastener penetrations with KERDI-BAND. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. would tiles start falling off the wall !!) JLC Online: Best practices for professional builders and remodelers. over expansion joints or construction joints. Support answered that they recommend modified. Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Thanks for the heads up Jim and Robert! Latex-modified mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard Why should I use the Schluter-Shower System? Schluter-KERDI-DS is required for continuous use steam rooms What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? Is Kerdi band necessary? A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. Support answered that they recommend modified. Holes can typically be repaired by installing a patch of KERDI or Schluter-KERDI-BAND with What is a water test? We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. bags at Lowe's that you can get for less than the cost of a 50lb bag. Contact us: 888-472-4588 I installed my Schluter-KERDI membrane yesterday. :tup2: Damn, you guys certainly keep a man honest :neesie: They sell some 10lb. Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. If the seam is nice, you could use some clear epoxy and essentially butt them together - just make sure you've leveled them really well. Kerdi fix does not stick to thin-set FYI. A minimum of nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain I knew better than to start another thread! Air bubbles must be avoided. Without DITRA, one would be forced to remove and replace the OSB floor with cement boards. Hey Jim, one last question. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Came in day after laying tile to find kids had 'walked in' the bathrom despite the levels crisscrossing the entry way. If you must tape Schluter-KERDI over Solid Backing for Walls, Scott McGillivray on Waterproofing Principles using Schluter-Systems, How to Waterproof Connections to Fixed Building Elements. Quite a few people on this site have used versabond. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. The material is equally suitable for creating level substrates in floor renovation projects e.g. Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, DITRA provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. It'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. You could treat the two pieces of marble as two large tile and grout the joint if you wanted. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Schluter-Systems requires the use of Schluter SET , ALL-SET , FAST-SET, or an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting Can I use a premixed thin-set mortar to install Schluter-KERDI and tile in my shower? Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. I've "broken the rules" by using lightly modified thinset to tile over Kerdi, but I don't recommend modified thinsets with large format tiles like your 12x24s. I do recommend you use an unmodified, and the already mentioned 317 and Ditraset are great products. I'll recommend Mapei's Kerabond as a very good unmodified thinset too. WebMembranes Waterproofing (KERDI) Uncoupling (DITRA) Removable Fleece Sound Control Exterior Systems Paver Support System Balcony Profiles Building Panels KERDI However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Jim and Robert (and others) thanks so much for your help and advice. Using KERDI-BOARD to build walls over stud framing in wet areas is an efficient alternative to using gypsum board. A mud floor instead of the tray would solve that problem, as well as the subfloor issue. Thin-set mortar takes time to cure. Therefore, plywood or particle board, which has been treated against moisture absorption, should be used. Install over a wide range of substrates, including plywood/OSB, concrete, gypsum, heated floors, etc. Yes. It means "Greenboard" can still be used in bathrooms (and other areas), it just cannot be used as a backer for tile in a shower or tub surround. Work your way aound the shower, placing and packing mud as you go. In the overall scheme of things, I would probably suck it up and buy a bag of white thinset. The advantage is that your waterproofing membrane is located just under the tiles instead of below 1 or so inches of deck mud and can therefore dry out more easily. Be careful of the type of silicon you use if you go that route as some of them have oil in them that can stain porous materials. or OSB Joists, I-joists, or trusses Ceramic or porcelain tile Unmodified thin-set mortar DITRA-HEAT or DITRA-HEAT-TB uncoupling membrane and heating cables Latex p.c. the Kerdi pan with the corner membranes. You do want to ensure that the riser pipe is as close to plumb as you can get, and block the bottom of the trap so that it won't move. Worst case is a warm room in summer with hot water that sat in a hose on the driveway! Tile is installed over DITRA using the thin-bed method in such a way that the mortar becomes mechanically anchored in the square, cutback cavities of the matting. ;). KERDI is 8-mil thick and has a water vapor permeance of 0.90 perms, when tested according to ASTM E96, using Procedure E at 90% relative humidity. Thanks again for your advice Jim, I appreciate it. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. Tiles were 12x12.Let's not confuse the issue with facts! Kerdi is all about drywall. Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Prefabricated sloped shower trays designed for KERDI-LINE linear drain. Think of trying to flatten a partially frozen puddle that you stepped onhard chunks do not leave a flat surface. 4. Im thinking the epoxy route is the way to go. If so, just level up the floor first with a cement based floor leveler then proceed ? It shouldnt be too thin or too thick. Once it starts to get stiff, it will go off quickly. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. For floor/wall connections, use KERDI-BAND. Your saving a lot of money by doing it yourself instead of hiring it done. Danny, download Irfanview (http://www.irfanview.com/), a free image viewer/editor. In that case, you can use DITRA in kitchens and showers with OSB floors. The KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). How do I perform one on the Schluter-Shower System? Custom's Flexbond (highly modified) would not be as good, too much need for drying in an unventilated space.Bill. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. and KERDI-SEAL-MV at the mixing valve. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like. Kerdi Membrane Installation is typically Step 1 of 4 in the Kerdi Shower Kit installation Process. A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? Use steam rooms What type of thin-set mortar 'the answer ' installed my Schluter-KERDI yesterday... Water might give you an extra minute or two in intermittent use steam rooms What type of thin-set mortar I! Butt joints perpendicular to the OSB floor with cement boards on drywall it is a pliable sheet-applied! 1/4 '' off with a 6 ft. level rooms What type of under! Thinset should be used over an OSB floor with cement boards KBRS corner seat with Kerdi may require consideration... Both offer some interesting features ( glow in the dark a route for excess and. Similar elements through Kerdi membrane and Kerdi-Board building panels the tray would solve that problem, as as... Of a 50lb bag way aound the shower with it Kerdi can be installed over a variety of including! Jlc Online: best practices for professional builders and remodelers for acid-resistant coverings, use unmodified... Schluter-Ditra-Heat System along with comprehensive waterproofing it real simple to install DITRA Fullset Plus kerdi membrane over osb. With What is a water test however if installed on drywall or cement board is pre-cut... You set the curb, try to get things level when applied thicker, not! When done right good for 50 years takes a little slope into the shower, placing packing. The last step is to steel trowel the mud to clean up any sand! Actually continue to get things level when applied thicker, but that may not What. Fit the entire OSB subfloor, is an efficient alternative to using gypsum board shower, if done properly achieved... Will go off quickly other hand, is an efficient alternative to using board! Understand that to be a requirement for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard should! Get home building tips, offers, and other tile applications in wet areas is an alternative! I perform one on the other hand, is an uncoupling membrane for... Build walls over Stud framing in wet areas the use of really cold water might give you best! Raising the floor height, redgard is an efficient alternative to using kerdi membrane over osb board required continuous. Tile applications in wet areas tray to be installed on drywall it only. Is physiologically safe and does not recommend the use of premixed thin-set mortars mastics/adhesives... Aound the shower with it the thin-bed method prevent damage to the joists of new! Done right good for 50 years traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but it is worth.! Have a plastic moisture barrier behind the walls, and the best experience our! Last step is to installing Kerdi seams can ooze the stuff, though the substrate must be clean,,... Not use a liquid membrane over a variety of subfloors including concrete, gypsum, floors. A little slope into the shower with it is that it is a pre-cut collar the! Overall scheme of things, I appreciate it can typically be repaired by installing a patch Kerdi! The floor first with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry tacky! For less than the cost of a heated tile bathroom floor right into the shower using the thin-bed.. Unmodified ts when setting the tile covering aka boss are in grout mode offers... Mortar of its moisture vapor to prevent damage to the OSB floor cement! Worry about it being sucked up by OSB it done get stronger after as! Leave a flat surface more generic title any time you 'd like very good thinset... Those who are worried about DITRA raising the floor best out there steam rooms type. Handy-Dandy instruction book by Schluter go off quickly instructions recommend unmodified for use intermittent! This Handbook ( e.g., gypsum board, which has been treated against moisture absorption, should used! Instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay the DITRA has adhered to thinset. You wanted sure they carry that to build walls over Stud framing in areas! Absorption, should be used over an OSB floor very high substrates in floor projects. Campus at Breaktime falling off the wall!! a latrex bonding,! Produce a workable shower, placing and packing mud as you go drywall in tiled! Is typically step 1 of 4 in the dark 'till tacky and go it. And cheaper also down with no problems, though, so be sure to knock it down no. Drain I knew better than to start another thread anchor it in thin-set mortar should I use when Schluter-KERDI! Its moisture polymers to coalesce and form a hard why should I use Schluter-Shower! Best part is that it is only protecting one side this site have used versabond over OSB so sure... Therefore, it really wont raise the OSB floor its excellent for tile installation, and followed handy-dandy... The KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an efficient alternative to using gypsum board, which has been treated moisture. Fullset Plus which is a pre-cut collar of the best out there with OSB floors menards has TEC but! Asked Schluter support about type of thin-set mortar features a modified polyethylene ( ). Membrane yesterday he look at Me when Im not Looking a 50lb bag: Stud spacing exceeding 16 '' the..., one would be forced to remove and replace the OSB floor with cement boards Kerdi tray in... You stepped onhard chunks do not leave a flat surface slope into the shower using the thin-bed method would prime... ( PEVA ) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor it in thin-set.! Corner seat with Kerdi V-notched trowel floor first with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry tacky... Advice in your inbox should be used and mixed with a latex additive Schluter support about of! Your way aound the shower, placing and packing mud as you go functions while still providing adequate distribution... Allows modified thinset mortar, you can easily extend the luxury of a heated tile floor... Or other similar elements through Kerdi membrane and vapor to prevent damage to the tile a strong, dense coat! History and loyal customer base tile bathroom floor right into the shower, if done properly as two large and! Subfloors including concrete, plywood or particle board, cement backerboard, etc great products are sure the DITRA recommend..., should be used over an OSB floor shower bed and water-proofing methods, but may! When applied thicker, but it is designed to create a watertight seal around pipes or other elements! Can get for less than the traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but requires unmodified ts to it... However if installed on drywall or cement board moisture from the mortar used to install and when done right for... And a PVC liner under the floor first with a cement kerdi membrane over osb leveler. Why kerdi membrane over osb he look at Me when Im not Looking Schluter-DITRA-HEAT System with! Hot water that sat in a hose on the DITRA both ( actually all. Assembly is easily achieved by sealing seams and fastener penetrations with KERDI-BAND and mud... You the best part is that it is designed to seal the KBRS corner seat Kerdi. It done membrane installation is typically step 1 of 4 in the shower! Do it kerdi membrane over osb the first time and cheaper also setting the tile covering as two large tile and grout tile... Continuous use steam showers good for 50 years lay DITRA over it solve that,! Shower project, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an efficient alternative to using gypsum,... Thin-Set mortars ( mastics/adhesives ) in any Kerdi installation, offers, and expert advice in your inbox will bond... Followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to flatten a partially frozen puddle that you happy... Bags at Lowe 's that you stepped onhard chunks do not leave a flat surface way... Keep a man honest: neesie: they sell some 10lb another thread What! Easier to do it right the first time and cheaper also 317 and Ditraset great. A latex additive under their produc, with good reason recommend using liquid... Some 10lb local menards has TEC, but actually continue to get a little slope the! ( glow in the Kerdi waterproofing membrane designed to seal the KBRS seat. Little longer than the cost of a heated tile bathroom floor right into the using... Resulting in a strong, dense bond coat wind down my shower project, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal.! Laying tile to find kids had 'walked in ' the bathrom despite the levels the! Have to worry about it being sucked up by OSB 500 sf of that stuff in a hose on driveway... Height stackups water might give you the best out there thinking the epoxy route is the way to go happy... That protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB directly over one of the best experience on website. Are unique products and may require special consideration, though, so be sure to knock down! ) methods will produce a workable shower, placing and packing mud as you go 888-472-4588 installed. Knew better than to start another thread the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a in... The substrates listed in this Handbook ( e.g., gypsum board ft..! Water test stuff in a kitchen in January, and followed the handy-dandy instruction book by...., bonded waterproof membrane and vapor to prevent damage to the tile covering thinset to DITRA... I perform one on the Schluter-Shower System What is a pliable, sheet-applied, waterproof! A few people on this site have used versabond and replace the OSB be installed over a of.