Hell, we even had SGMs who wouldnt butter bars and 1LTs, unless you earned it by being high speed and they knew it. West Point welcomed Command Sargent Major Michael J. Coffey as the 21st U.S. Military Academy senior enlisted leader during an assumption of responsibility ceremony Monday, August 17, 2020. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! They are TDY for a few weeks therefore their authority only extends to West Point. (I was going through a few operations connected to wound recovery). When I was an O-3, I regularly saluted SGM's first depending on who saw whom first and the nature of the encounter. Staff Sergeant Paul Hadwiger, from Kirksville, Missouri, joined the West Point Band in July of 2018. Just try it. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel Administration Specialist which later became 42A Human Resources Specialist. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. Command Sergeant Major Michel R. Fraser was born in Wilmington, North Carolina and raised in Conway, South Carolina. $9.99 + $6.85 shipping . In flight school cadets qualified for flight pay in addition to their regular pay. He previously served as Music Arranger and NCOIC of Sound, Staging, and Lighting at the 113th Army Band "Dragoons" in Fort Knox, Kentucky. In 2012, he was awarded a Master of Public Administration from John Jay College in New York, New York, with a concentration in human resources management, and is a member of the Adjutant General Corps Regimental Association. As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. come from many NCO's who claim that "NCO's are the backbone of the Army". Almost, like her husband, an officer and a lady. WEST POINT, N.Y. - The chain of command for the U.S. I was recently in a conversation with a senior noncommissioned officer in an elite US Army unit, when the subject of CTLT came up. And if for one second you think any Infantrymen will ever do something that violates our Constitutional form of government, you've made the worst assumption of your young life. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. Even after more than twenty years in uniform, it still surprises me what I dont know about my own profession, and what I still have to learn from my NCOs. Correction The lugnut comment was in reference to comment 11 from Toga, not the author. Your submission has been received. As he worked in our platoon, we all quietly covered for him, especially when he got misoriented now and then (analog land nav isn't simple, especially when mounted) after a few months he was squared away and we taught him our secrets and he never betrayed us. I too am an honorably discharged Army Vet from an Army family. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. CSM Craven has also earned the German, Chilean, and Australian Parachutist badges and is a member of the Prestigious Sergeant Audie Murphy Club. Your comment reeks of arrogance. I was floored. I mean, that certainly seemed to be the case at Airborne School back in the day. It made it very difficult to operate as an NCO under his command. A the this leader our soldiers says to me that I did not ground the equipment right. This should not turn into a them vs us type of debate. Master Sergeant Loy Song has played in the Concert Band and Jazz Knights trumpet sections, was a founding member and lead singer of the Benny Havens Band, and is now a member of the Support Staff. Share mutual respect and work together is the name of the game. Has the. Mainly because I do belive the new generation of officers are a bunch of participation trophy recieving, never held accountable, privileged, idiots who can't handle that all that academy training and degree mean jack shit but to stroke their since of superiority over others. Pro-Tip: Don't make a blog post, offer a comment section, then expect not to be schooled by your elders, especially when taking a condescending tone. Rrrrr matey, were be that 3rd Lieutenant. Throughout his career as both an Airman and Civilian, he has served in numerous assignments at locations: n Chief, Public Works Fort Eustis, VA
Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. This author wrote an excellent piece. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. Your email address will not be published. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. In reserve and guard units, SMP cadets do hold assigned positions, but have no position in the chain of command. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Good answer. The cadet never will outrank a sergeant first class, master sergeant first sergeant sergeant major etc. I was an enlisted man and my rank at the time of my discharge in the late Summer of 1989 was Sergeant E5. Always seek the minority view of any situation or story! Yet I would not want a Year 1 WP cadet in charge of a company. Combined Forces Special Operations Component Command, n Deputy Division Chief, Enduring Sites Division Baghdad, Iraq
Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. You missed it my good first sergeant so I dutifully call your attention to it. Define "Duty", you know as opposed to "Education/Training". Im a Senior WO and I can personally attest to the height of arrogance the NCO Corps exercises today. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. Born in Heidelberg, West Germany, of African American and Hispanic parents in a U.S. military family, she graduated from Oxon Hill High School in Maryland, where she ranked among the top-10 students in her class. Very interesting. In respect of ROTC, the R stipulates that only a contracted cadet in ROTC fits the definition I presented. I was now an active duty Captain with a right shoulder patch ( a big deal in those days ) and a couple of combat medals on my chest ( not bragging but including because of the story ). Is anyone able to give me a solid answer to this question? Good Grunts care less for their next promotion beyond making sure our records are correct. Something went wrong while submitting the form. I don't mean to take anything away from the Point but my first platoon leader was the finest officer I ever served under. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. Dont take it as a sign of disrespect however. I bet they could not even remember my name. (3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) Coming straight out of a college (any college) prepares you for exactly nothing. Outside of authorized developmental training events such as CTLT, no NCO is going to allow a cadet to swoop in and take charge of his platoon, squad, or section. Through conversations, we get better LT's coming out of ROTC or NCO's newly converted to O grade.. Imagine that, good ol Top didnt read the entire regulation, only the part that suited his narrativeshocked. Before anyone attacks me, I am a prior Army SSG who is now a MSIV Cadet (Active duty and Branched). which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. But having learned this, it made me wonder when this would actually matter in any meaningful way. Hooah!!! But usually, you're the one doing most of the work. While Deployed with the Corps in support of Operation Inherent Resolve, he also assumed duties as the Combined Joint Task Force (OIR) J-3 Sergeant Major. I've seen this relationship play out in the Army. My CWO put him in his place and ask what would this cadet' commanding officer would think of his conduct and told him to leave. (2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. Podcast Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan (Ministry of Defense Advisor), n Engineering Director Kabul, Afghanistan
NEW! I was wondering if I would have to make mention of the fact that until they are COMMISSIONED Officers, they will remain nothing more than a glorified E-5 NCO pay scale while in USMA. CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. We are officers in training and when we get a chanve at a leadership role with the guidance of the NCOs it will ensure our success as officers. They are legally considered E-5 equivalent, and aren't Branch qualified. She is the premier vocalist for the West Point Band and first sang with them at their season finale 1812 concert in 1980, at the age of 12. Somehow, the memo of shifting demographics of new Soldiers within the Infantry never reached West Point so there's a huge disconnect in reality. Yet, still burdened with the unsocial characteristic of the enlisted class. Both have an option for Cadets to be apart of a simultaneous membership program. Thanks for your disgustingly pointless article. Each job is as important as the rest. But short of that, cadets can end up in just about anywhere. And get to know your PBO very well! Eight cadet-athletes were selected to leadership positions and will assume their duties Aug. 10. Staff Sergeant Chrissy Rivers joined the West Point Band in September of 2010. NCO's look at big picture constantly, good officers are aware of this and cultivate this. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. Your email address will not be published. OK, fine. Master Sergeant Brandie Lane of Columbia, South Carolina, joined the West Point Band in October of 2010. Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. The platoon sergeant major, and his cavalry counterpart, the troop sergeant major, were part of a project giving experienced non-commissioned officers command of units ( platoons and troops) formerly reserved for commissioned officers. That just goes to show that the regular cadets get crapped on and they can't change it. Sure I went through some hazing ( Sir, could you go to the motor pool and ask the motor sergeant for a left thermal heat reticle calibration tool? I was sent all over the place until I finally caught on.) CTLT happens in all kinds of units, both in the US and OCONUS. I say this as a retired officer. To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. They clearly outrank privates and are often assigned to leadership roles, but they aren't yet commissioned. I never got gigged for not saluting another LT, so I didnt think much of it. I'm popping into the conversation late, but I completely agree (not that you can argue with the regs). While in Iraq in 2003-04 we got a batch of 12 west pointer kids and more than half were momma's boys and short of a huge shift in their personality and ideals, they're too far gone in the head to be respectable leaders. Sometimes cadets are relegated to less-meaningful duties, or endure some modicum of hazing as part of the experience. This essay is an unofficial expression of opinion; the views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of West Point, the Department of the Army, U.S. This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). First off the reg says regularly assigned personnel, which the Cadets are not. She graduated from Conway High School in 1989. When an NCO saluted me, I didn't just wave my hand at my cover to dismiss the salute, but "locked up" a little myself, acknowledged him with eye contact, and responded to any greeting. Now, based on personal experience, I cannot say I was comfortable at all with the USMA grad who came into Iraq (2004-06). entitled to the salute.". Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. I think not. The authors creative example about an NCO looking at a lugnut and an officer looking at the whole vehicle is nuts (bad humor). In her free time, she enjoys spending time with her husband and two incredible sons. Two of many subjects I taught E-6 and E-7 were Military Customs and Courtesy, and Uniform. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. When I contracted under the SMP I was administratively promoted to the rank and pay grade of E-5 ( I had served two years previously in the Army Reserve as a junior enlisted 11B). So you are always busy and have something to do. He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. Sergeant Major MaryKay Messenger is a native of Newburgh, New York, and a well-known soloist throughout the Hudson Valley region, performing classical, Broadway, jazz, and popular music. Nurses don't outrank med students or vice-versa. Mr. Mitchells awards include the Defense of Freedom Medal, US Army Superior Civilian Service Medal (x4), US Army Meritorious Civilian Service Medal, US Army Engineer Regimental Professional Excellence Award, Bronze de Fleury Medal, Secretary of Defense Medal for Global War on Terrorism, NATO Non-Article 5 Service Medal, Joint Meritorious Unit Award United States Force Iraq, J-7, US Army Achievement Medal for Civilian Service (x2). It was advanced pay so to speak. Most of us own our own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the best. The Air Force Aviation Cadet program was fazed out during the mid 1960's as the Air Force Academy became the primary source of flight rated officers. I never saluted another LT after that as an LT. I think that it would be a huge step in the right direction for the ROTC BNs to send their CDTs to their gaining units with an LOI/MOU pinned to their chest (Im sure ROTC has probably published guidance along those lines, but Ive never seen it) so that those commanders will have some idea what to do with those CDTs when they get there. A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. Your attitude will get you relegated to a Quonset hut in BFE. The two year enlistment term allowed for cadets who had to temporarily halt training because of illness or injury. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. I hope this sheds some light on things. Cadets are still learning and everyone in the unit should help mentor them and show the value of NCOs. I really liked the story and learned something as well having been a former SMP Cadet before I commissioned. Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. His approach to us was simple and he asked lots of questions about how to best kill tanks and he found that each man has their own method of how they like to do things and tactics they like or dislike and for what reasons. It's virtually guaranteed there are at least one or two SNCO in a given company qualified to take a short term command of the company. And yes the officer corps views your spouse as just a "wife.". Anyway. The only regularly assigned cadets are in the national guard or reserves as a SMP Cadet. In my experience we rarely see a decent new officer come out of West Point and it's really sad. It should be. Thanks for subscribing! Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. Technically. *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. CDT military IDs show geneva convention status 3. I respect ALL Personnel of the US ARMED FORCES and Civilians appointed over me. One might argue that a cadet who is SMP, simultaneous membership program, would be regularly assigned. So this cadet would already be embedded with the staff or command team or shadowing the Platoon Leader, and would most likely have some, albeit limited prior service. The U.S. Army, alerted that the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point reportedly violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) by tweeting criticism of former President Donald Trump and also targeted Republican Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, former White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Ohio GOP Rep. Jim Jordan has commenced an investigation. (Still, there is no need to salute them. Cadets are not commissioned nor do they possess a warrant. Officers and NCO's must realize alike that, they way you treat your future Officers (NCO's case) and the way you treat your subordinates (Officers case) will dictate how the military can and will be run in the future. Eventually reclassifying as a MLRS/HIMARS Fire Direction Specialist, he would serve the Field Artillery Community in many positions ranging from Teams Chief to DIVARTY Command Sergeant Major. As far as I know there are no CTLT positions in combat zones. Elite only in their mind. Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal * U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. What comes after is when the real learning begins. In addition, CSM Whiteford served two tours at the U.S . As that was a long time ago, my memories of the experience were that it was the best and the worst of both worlds. I wore the Cadet rank insignia of 2LT. They aren't commissioned yet, and as pointed out above, they are considered equivalent to an E-5. Here's my advise that will serve you well; always remember this; ASSUMPTIONS ARE THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS! Let me explain: Its summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means Cadet Troop Leader Training or CTLT. I did 24 years in the ARMY and have been led by West Pointers! IQ averages are around 120 for most Grunts and for those that don't track demographics, that's a huge jump from national averages. Prior to joining the West Point Band, Staff Sergeant Rivers interned at Billboard Magazine and Knopf Publishing. You earn everything in the Army. A Gunny at 29Palms RTAMS and a Chief at NASA/AMES CA are among my most treasured mentors. When a cadet has to leave the USAFA before graduation, he is assigned to a reserve unit with the rank of Airman 2C. My Drill Sargeant after our last 12 mile road, reminded all of us that until the graduation ceremony and recite the enlistment oath only the will we officially be soldiers. So cadets are included in the definition. "(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16." WEST POINT, NY (Oct. 14, 2016) - The U.S. Army and the U.S . Does the cadet need to be regularly assigned to a Cadet billet? Prior to joining the band, Master Sergeant Lane served as head audio engineer at Grammy Award-winning Sono Luminus, a record label in Northern Virginia specializing in classical and jazz music. The supervising doctor might ask the medical student to do certain things a doctor would normally do (recommend a prescription, put in sutures, read test or x-ray results), but only with direct physician supervision. Regarding saluting courtesy in the cadet corps. Practice ought to comport with policy. Then again for the same categories who were on rear detachment duties! But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCO's authority and influence. It is the oldest of the five American service academies and . At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. Now, that is a perfect resolution. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. We can feel confident we did our hob helping train a. We have other job description s (stores /rations handling.. what that person is responsible for , order for commissary ration/breakdown The better we helped him to understand the less he has to look for answers. It is not just West Point cadets who outrank NCO's. That one NCO who doesn't give a crap about you is the one you should be talking to. United States Forces Iraq (USF-I), J-7, n Chief, Engineering Plans and Services Yuma, AZ
No commission? Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. The Army has launched an investigation after the unmasking of a semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point, allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump, an Army official confirmed to the Daily Caller. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as "Mister." Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. Thank you! Great investment. It would be earned when I became the kind of Officer that he would be honored to serve as right hand to. The Commandant's Corner is a way to provide a direct channel of information about current cadet activities, leadership topics and other updates about the United States Military Academy's Corps of Cadets. Command Sergeant Major Robert T. Craven 26th Command Sergeant Major United States Corps of Cadets, West Point CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. Cadets salute one another and it is initiated according to cadet rank. After just two years of military service, Poe attained the rank of Sergeant Major for Artillery, the highest enlisted rank open to him. I found myself going toe to toe with these junior NCOs and enlisted, but not to destroy their souls (as the NCO in me wanted to do so badly) but to talk to them and help them understand that if you treat these cadets like crap, it will be returned 10 fold in a year when they commission, hate NCOs, and are their raters. It was never the SNCOs, it was always a SSG, SGT, or junior enlisted Soldier disrespecting these cadets (myself included). While being true you must also realize there is a need for Commissioned Officers as well as Non Commissioned Officers. During cadet training we were paid at the rate of an E5. I thought this is a very well written article. 2014 - 2016: Command Sgt. I respect them all but I just wonder what makes them "Elite" as you say? It's hilarious when reality trumps the entitlement issues of a newly hatched fetus. Dont demand respect earn it. Treat the Cadets with respect. If you've ever been in a doctor's appointment and a medical student was assigned to your doctor, that's about how cadets in CTLT and SMP function. They always forgot to take the safety bail/pin out of the RPG fuze and the round would just bounce off our Bradleys, lol. Cadets are Officers period and should be rendered the appropriate courtesy. Sergeant Major Jeremy Schlegel, from Hanover Township, Pennsylvania, joined the West Point Band in August of 2008. They won't forget what you've shown them and they will resent you. A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. ). The Army isnt some pay your dues ol boys club anymore. Her favorite moments in uniform include singing for the President of the United States at a West Point Graduation, singing the National Anthem at a New England Patriots game, and singing with The Roots on NBCs The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. What is the TO&E and where is the cadet slotted? Sergeant Major Denver Dill is a member of the West Point Band and an instructor of American Politics at the United States Military Academy, West Point, New York. Without these people, "How do you become "ELite"! Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. Cream only. By reg,they can't command or lead troops in the field. Secondly, just because of this outdated regulation (considering no cadets are assigned to any deployed units) requires no customs or courtesy obligation from enlisted soldiers or officers. Cadet you are not a cadet when in you ng or reserve unit. Maj. Michael A. Crosby, left, bears the colors of Army Futures Command, as General Mark Milley, 23rd Secretary of the Army Mark Esper, and General John M. Murray unfurl the colors on 24 August 2018, in Austin, Texas A command sergeant major ( CSM) is a non-commissioned rank and position of office in the United States Army. If you think a fellow West Point graduate is a great leader, see how she/he behaves after having a soldier vaporized by an RPG in front of him. Cadet Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020. Greetings from West Point and welcome to the Commandant's Corner. Ive been on both sides of the fence. Seriously get over yourselves West Point you produce officers like any other university and they are no better or worse than anyone else. We only go to attention for officers. And if you think islam is a warm and fuzzy religion, you're way off! Specifically, it allows them to try their hands at officership, and to get a feel for the kinds of officer/NCO relationships that are essential to the success of our Army. 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'S newly converted to O grade them vs us type of debate Major Jeremy Schlegel, from Township! But have no position in the late Summer of 1989 was Sergeant E5 who claim that NCO... Making sure our records are correct husband and two incredible sons that, cadets can end up in just anywhere! Fuck UPS Ithaca, NEW York of their position promotion beyond making sure records... The Army and have been led west point sergeant major West Pointers Rivers joined the Point. Whiteford served two tours at the U.S 's look at big picture constantly, good are. When the real learning begins III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly. the!
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